Curse

Steps_Descending · Dec 16, 2009, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Hit a sensible point didn't I?

Fay Vert · Dec 16, 2009, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Actually yes

There has been so much misinformation about this, mostly due to straight out lies by Gaile, and it's really sad that those lies are still perpetuated even to this day. If only people would simply try for themselves, there is no debate, anyone can prove it very easily, traps are a good way to prove it because they trigger this effect to the maximum.

Steps_Descending · Dec 16, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

I know most people won't see it, but after checking up on the wiki, I found (one of) the drop rate analysis.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/d...tml?t=10329475

mage767 · Dec 17, 2009, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Looks like someone has no idea what they're talking about.

Traps are terrible for farming because they are slow (therefore always less efficient than other methods) and they are terrible for general PvE and PvP (besides HA gimmicks) because they are easily interruptible, have long cast times, cause scatter, have long recharge times, and have high energy costs.

Go ahead and reveal your trapping secret to the community. If you can prove traps are effective (besides in the few situations mentioned in previous posts), I will gladly eat my words.

Traps easily interruptable...LOL. Read all the ranger elites...the answer is there.

I only share when I feel like it.

Traps slow...see ranger skills, the answer is there.

Terrible for general pve? Where did you try it? Shing Jea?

Cause scatter? WTB snare trap.

Long recharge times? WTB Serpents quickness.

High energy costs? WTB expertise.

Shows how much you REALLY knew about traps.

byteme! · Dec 17, 2009, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Trapping is slow and inefficient for the most part. I solo trap just for fun when I'm bored. What it boils down to is efficiency for me. Period.

The Drunkard · Dec 17, 2009, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

I only share when I feel like it.

Traps slow...see ranger skills, the answer is there.

Terrible for general pve? Where did you try it? Shing Jea?

Sorry, I'm stupid and incompetent- do you mind pointing out the skills and your build for me?

Trapping is weak and too conditional for the poor damage/support it causes in general pve. Sure, you can solo farm with it, but SoS is much faster.

Notorious Bob · Dec 17, 2009, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

Trapping is slow and inefficient for the most part. I solo trap just for fun when I'm bored. What it boils down to is efficiency for me. Period.

Then you're clearly doing it wrong.

A full trap set and pull is based on a 90 second cycle and should kill all mobs pulled in an area.

Of course there is the condition that unless your path trapping or kiting then melee mobs are the primary targets, but mixed mob farming was never part of the trappers armoury.

Go tell the trolls in the ice cave outside Droks that trapping is inefficient!

Nerfs and undocumented design features buggered up trapping for the masses.

Kenzo Skunk · Dec 17, 2009, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Trapping in FA is all i use them for.

Tenebrae · Dec 17, 2009, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Traps easily interruptable...LOL. Read all the ranger elites...the answer is there.

They are , read the skills. Just because theres one elite that solves the problem doesnt mean the problem is not there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

I only share when I feel like it.

Yeah , if you tell us , you would have to kill us , thats it right ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Traps slow...see ranger skills, the answer is there.

Well they have an activation time , unlike 80% of marksmanship and expertise skills so yes , they can be seen as "slow".

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Terrible for general pve? Where did you try it? Shing Jea?

When did you use traps ? while being with other trappers ?. In a normal balanced group ppl will kill mobs before you use your entire "trapper bar" and most of them wont trigger them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Cause scatter? WTB snare trap.

See first quote and read <skill> instead of <elite>.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Long recharge times? WTB Serpents quickness.

See first quote and read <stance> instead of <elite>

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

High energy costs? WTB expertise.

See first quote and read ... ok , i think you got it by now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Shows how much you REALLY knew about traps.

Yeeeeeeah you should write a book pal , i bet title is "how i wtfpwn all mobs with my traps in a balanced group" . I would buy it , seriously.

Being · Dec 17, 2009, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Traps are fun and effective when used right, but in the general PvE meta for both group builds and farming trapping is just too slow and actually requires some skill to pull off effectively.

Last I've bothered to use traps was for farming stygians in DoA in HM as a R/A using By Ural's Hammer to increase the damage. Though it's still not as simple and quick as the old trap build with EW.

Traps probably could do with a nice buff on the PvE side of things, as in PvP it would only cause grief, especially on certain maps...

Notorious Bob · Dec 17, 2009, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Being

Traps are fun and effective when used right, but in the general PvE meta for both group builds and farming trapping is just too slow and actually requires some skill to pull off effectively.

Last I've bothered to use traps was for farming stygians in DoA in HM as a R/A using By Ural's Hammer to increase the damage. Though it's still not as simple and quick as the old trap build with EW.

Traps probably could do with a nice buff on the PvE side of things, as in PvP it would only cause grief, especially on certain maps...

QFT!

Given Anet's continued inability to fix, or unwillingness to admit to, the RoK/AoE bug (and maybe have to admit to some really rubbish drop code) then why they don't revert EW to its previous duration for PvE beggars belief.

Fay Vert · Dec 17, 2009, 09:10 PM // 21:10

General PvE?

Try joining a Pug and then try to persuade the wammos to wait a minute while you set your traps. Then try to get the tosser to use them!

They have limited use in farming solo/duo, but are slow (not to activate, to lay a set) and rather pointless due to RoK lie, but for general PvE play, forget it.

Ugh · Dec 17, 2009, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob

If your traps are causing scatter then YOU'RE doing it wrong.

That was in my list of why they're bad for general PvE.

Quote:

Traps easily interruptable...LOL. Read all the ranger elites...the answer is there.

Sacrificing an elite slot to not have my traps be easily interruptible isn't worth it. And, thanks to long recharges, a trapper needs all the skill slots he can have. Wasting one for a crappy preparation isn't worth it.

Quote:

I only share when I feel like it.

Wow, you sure dodged that one. You clearly have no other uses for traps.

Quote:

Traps slow...see ranger skills, the answer is there.

1.5 second cast is still slow.

Quote:

Terrible for general pve? Where did you try it? Shing Jea?

I can't use traps in a town. And, it doesn't matter where I use them, they'll suck all the same.

Quote:

Cause scatter? WTB snare trap.

WTB speed increases in HM and the fact that you only need to move a few inches to get away from a trap.

Quote:

Long recharge times? WTB Serpents quickness.

WTB SQ doesn't work with Trapper's Speed so I then need to spend more time casting and SQ also can't be maintained.

Quote:

High energy costs? WTB expertise.

WTB all the good traps are either elite or cost 25 energy, traps need to be set constantly to be effective, and Expertise isn't energy management, it just makes you run out of energy slower.

Quote:

Shows how much you REALLY knew about traps.

Shows how much you really know about the game in general.

WTB smarter person to argue with.

gw_poster · Dec 17, 2009, 11:54 PM // 23:54

since no one has yet to put a trapping build to discuss, I'll throw this one out there to rip on:

12+3+1 wilderness
12+3 expertise

radiant, attunement for the rest

high energy staff (I use mindclouder)

dwarven stability
trappers speed
brambles (spirit target)
barbed trap
piercing trap
spike trap [e]
black powder mine
weakness trap

last two traps can be switched if not r8+ in either rank

it's meh at best, but should work....i haven't trapped since UW chamber'ing back in the "good old days" lol

Ugh · Dec 18, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by gw_poster

dwarven stability
trappers speed
brambles (spirit target)
barbed trap
piercing trap
spike trap [e]
black powder mine
weakness trap

Dwarven Stability isn't really necessary since Trapper's Speed can be maintained indefinately.
Brambles is okay, but Winnowing would provide a bit more damage.
And, if you didn't already know, Black Powder and Weakness Trap aren't affected by expertise, so they're pretty expensive.

byteme! · Dec 18, 2009, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob

Then you're clearly doing it wrong.

A full trap set and pull is based on a 90 second cycle and should kill all mobs pulled in an area.

Of course there is the condition that unless your path trapping or kiting then melee mobs are the primary targets, but mixed mob farming was never part of the trappers armoury.

Go tell the trolls in the ice cave outside Droks that trapping is inefficient!

Nerfs and undocumented design features buggered up trapping for the masses.

It's still inefficient. You can sugar coat it all you want. If I'm limited to Troll farming among a "few" other places why would I want to trap? Farming Trolls for example is nowhere near efficient as it once was a couple of years back. The only place I would consider using traps is perhaps Stygian Veil because at least the rewards match the effort. The ship has sailed my friend. Your argument is 2-3 years late.

I could also use trapping UW as another example. For a person like myself, who happens to have all 10 classes available Ranger trapping would be the last thing I use if I wanted to farm ectos minus Paragon. Why? Because I know I can do it faster with other classes.

Riddle me that...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Shows how much you really know about the game in general.

WTB smarter person to argue with.

QFT.....Sorry Mage767 but you came into a battle of wits unarmed.

MisterB · Dec 18, 2009, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by gw_poster

since no one has yet to put a trapping build to discuss

Here's another I've used in Underworld; it can work in hard mode, too.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/User:Miste..._Spike_Trapper

The spirit can be anything; I used Brambles just so I could stick bleeding on the Aatxe and drop Barbed Trap. Storm Chaser is optional, but it makes pulling in hard mode easier. Switch in By Ural's Hammer in that spot to blow stuff up.

Signet of Spirits build works faster than this, but traps can kill larger groups like multiple Smite groups and the 6 or 9 Mindblade spawns more quickly. Spirit Spam is overall more efficient, IMO.

Just a note, you can kill many enemies up to ~level 26 after just ~30 seconds of trapping with this, not including time to pull.

mage767 · Dec 18, 2009, 05:18 AM // 05:18

The sheer level of inexperienced trappers in this forum makes me laugh.

Just because you used it for Zaishen elite, troll farming, or other gimmick famring builds doesn't mean traps cannot be used in PvE. Long recharge times and slow activation times is not an issue. First, try it in a HM PvE setting properly, and then come back and report. If you don't see its usefulness, you are most likely doing it wrong.

Wasting an elite slot for Trappers Focus is one of the weakest argument you all put through. You can easily bring Mantra of Resolve by going /Me if you feel you need a more aggressive trap elite. In fact, Trappers Focus adds +2 to wilderness, so it is not a wasted elite in the first place since it has excellent synergy with the overbuild. Finally, it is a preparation and doesn't interfere with serpent's quickness at all, the only stance you should have on the bar.

Someone said traps are energy inefficient. Don't be dumb and run a 25e dust trap. Throw dirt works just like a charm, and there is black power mine if you really are desperate for AoE blind. Always run a major expertise rune on headpiece. A proper build needs no more than 45e to keep spamming traps non-stop without interruption. If you are running out of energy, you ar doing it wrong. For starters, staff is fine, but then move on to shield (with stance mod) and sword with armor mod (and +5e) for close encounters.

From my experience, traps are one of the finest ways to tame the Charrs in HM. It makes vqing charr areas fun and easy, char dungeons manageable because the charrs simply suck at condition removal. It's something that a lot of players have overlooked. And their habit of sticking together like little frightened kittens makes trappings even more enjoyable. As trapper with IAU, I have boldly faced full meteor showers while causing utter chaos in their faces. You won't know this until you try it, so try it first before you talk. There is NO NEED to pre-lay traps. You can simply rush in, lay traps and annoy the hell out of charrs.

Traps are also perfect for 'dealing' with the oozes in ooze pit and other places. Combined with a fevered dreams necro/mesmer, and the conditions supplied from traps (like cripple/blind), the oozes are almost permanantly dazed.

Traps can also take out the worm boss in Heart of Shiverpeaks without using kegs. He goes down in like 2 mins, and it laughlingly simple. Guess no one tried that too, in fact, any fleshy creature is totally at the mercy of a trapper.

Traps are also excellent in UW where mindblades can't do jack against a "Melee Trapper". In fact, traps are great in several places in UW, and taking one on a run is recommended. It renders enemies almost useless, reducing pressure on healers/support units significantly.

Again, I am not here to spoon feed you all with builds. I wanted you to try things out first and see for yourself how trapping can be extremely fun in mainstream pve, NM or HM. If you have just used it for farming, then you have yet a lot more to see. Rangers need not necessaily have to go splinter barrage. Taking things down fast is not always the wisest option, but taking things down smart is.

Arrogant Bastard · Dec 18, 2009, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

The sheer level of inexperienced trappers in this forum makes me laugh.

Just because you used it for Zaishen elite, troll farming, or other gimmick famring builds doesn't mean traps cannot be used in PvE. Long recharge times and slow activation times is not an issue. First, try it in a HM PvE setting properly, and then come back and report. If you don't see its usefulness, you are most likely doing it wrong.

Wasting an elite slot for Trappers Focus is one of the weakest argument you all put through. You can easily bring Mantra of Resolve by going /Me if you feel you need a more aggressive trap elite. In fact, Trappers Focus adds +2 to wilderness, so it is not a wasted elite in the first place since it has excellent synergy with the overbuild. Finally, it is a preparation and doesn't interfere with serpent's quickness at all, the only stance you should have on the bar.

Someone said traps are energy inefficient. Don't be dumb and run a 25e dust trap. Throw dirt works just like a charm, and there is black power mine if you really are desperate for AoE blind. Always run a major expertise rune on headpiece. A proper build needs no more than 45e to keep spamming traps non-stop without interruption. If you are running out of energy, you ar doing it wrong. For starters, staff is fine, but then move on to shield (with stance mod) and sword with armor mod (and +5e) for close encounters.

From my experience, traps are one of the finest ways to tame the Charrs in HM. It makes vqing charr areas fun and easy, char dungeons manageable because the charrs simply suck at condition removal. It's something that a lot of players have overlooked. And their habit of sticking together like little frightened kittens makes trappings even more enjoyable. As trapper with IAU, I have boldly faced full meteor showers while causing utter chaos in their faces. You won't know this until you try it, so try it first before you talk. There is NO NEED to pre-lay traps. You can simply rush in, lay traps and annoy the hell out of charrs.

Traps are also perfect for 'dealing' with the oozes in ooze pit and other places. Combined with a fevered dreams necro/mesmer, and the conditions supplied from traps (like cripple/blind), the oozes are almost permanantly dazed.

Traps can also take out the worm boss in Heart of Shiverpeaks without using kegs. He goes down in like 2 mins, and it laughlingly simple. Guess no one tried that too, in fact, any fleshy creature is totally at the mercy of a trapper.

Traps are also excellent in UW where mindblades can't do jack against a "Melee Trapper". In fact, traps are great in several places in UW, and taking one on a run is recommended. It renders enemies almost useless, reducing pressure on healers/support units significantly.

Again, I am not here to spoon feed you all with builds. I wanted you to try things out first and see for yourself how trapping can be extremely fun in mainstream pve, NM or HM. If you have just used it for farming, then you have yet a lot more to see. Rangers need not necessaily have to go splinter barrage. Taking things down fast is not always the wisest option, but taking things down smart is.

Post builds and videos or you are just talking out your ass.

If you are tired of other people posting misinformation, then I suggest less paragraphs and more proof.

And saying your build is too secret squirrel to be revealed or that everyone else should figure out how to prove your point is not a good excuse.

byteme! · Dec 18, 2009, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Taking things down fast is not always the wisest option, but taking things down smart is.

I'm sorry I can't see how a trapper in a balanced group could share any relevance with the word smart in PvE.

I mean it's been nearly 5 years now. You mean to tell me that of the thousands upon thousands of users throughout the years that you and only you have unlocked the secret and skills necessary to make trapping good? I doubt it. The key word here is "good". We all know trapping will work in PvE. Heck anything works in PvE. The main question here is, "are there better options?".

Don't give me none of that lack of experience crap. We all know trapping is workable in GW. Workable is not indicative of a good skill bar. Who knows, maybe it was your team of H/H carrying you through without you realizing it.

For the last 5 years or so I have scoured the internet in search of a reason to use my Ranger as a trapper and have come up empty handed. I have tried trapping off and on during this time period. I have played with countless amounts of Guild members, PuGs and the like. Never, not once have I come across any sort of trapping that was actually, "OMG That's really good" outside of solo farming for the lulz. Heck I read your post and how you think trapping is such and such. The end result?

I think trapping still sucks.